April 24, 2014

What is the chance that a Papillon will have a Phalène puppy?

Question by Gee: What is the likelyhood that a Papillon will have a Phalène puppy?
Is it common or a rare occurrence?

Quick answer:

Answer by John C. M
rare 2,000 to 1

Read all the answers in the comments.

Know better? Leave your own answer!

Comments

  1. It depends on how many Phalenes are in the Papillon's bloodlines.

    Papillons and Phalenes are the same breed, just two varieties. Any Papillon can be a carrier for the Phalene genes and vice-versa. A Papillon could have an entire litter of Phalenes, and a Phalene could have an entire litter of Papillons.

    If all the dog's in the Papillon's 5-gen pedigree are Papillons, it's rare to see one throw a Phalene pup. Possible, but rare. If there are several Phalenes in the pedigree, there's a decent chance at least one puppy could be a Phalene.

    I have 2 Papillons, one of which is a Phalene, and he was born to 2 Papillons. The other is a Papillon with 2 Papillon parents.

    When breed Paps and Phalenes together, you can also end up with dogs that have one ear upright and one ear down. There's no name for these, but it happens.

  2. A Phalene born to Papillon parents only happens rarely. However, when a Papillon is found to produce Phalene they are usually introduced to a Phalene breeding program to help expand the Phalene only gene pool.

    I have been breeding Phalene exclusively for quite some time. I was breeding Phalene when they were not in fashion as they are today. Many other "show people" thought I was slightly odd breed a Phalene only line. Then in the early 2000's I had one particular Phalene that started doing a lot of winning. He had all of the elegance of his erect eared cousins, which is really hard to find in Phalene.

    In my Phalene only program I still get erect eared puppies from time to time. I would guess maybe 1 in 12 or so. However, the odds of a Phalene being born in a Papillon breeding program are much lower.

  3. Garnet Glitter says:

    American breeders are less likely to be fussy about breeding 'moths' to 'moths' and 'butterflies' to 'butterflies' as breeders in Europe are…..altho the original breed (Continental Toy Spaniel) was a drop eared dog, the erect eared or papillon has become dominant…..so if you want a phalene, seek out someone who breeds them..they are out there, you know.

  4. All I can tell you is we bred Papillons for about 6 yrs and never did we come up w/a Phalene….and none of my friends did either. So for what it's worth….that is my experience….we had 8 Papillons.

  5. From Dogs.com …….. Tasty Tidbits:

    Phalenes and Papillons may be born in the same litter
    Dainty and clean
    Easily housebroken
    Requires little exercise
    Recommended for apartment living or for older people
    The Phalene's original use was as a ladies companion; it has never had any job other than to grace the home and heart

  6. It depends on the blood-lines. My aunt has one and a friend of hers as well. it's hard to say.

  7. My Romeo bites!*jk* says:

    50/50 or so i was told lol i heard that you can have two Papillon parents with the typical up ears and they can have one pup with up and another with down. it just happens.

  8. Actually, a phalene is just a drop-eared version of a papillon and is the earliest form of the Papillon. So, a papillon might or might not have droopy ears, depending on it's parent's ears. Droopy ears are a recessive trait for papillons, so it isn't very common unless both parents have droopy ears or carry a recessive trait. But, I don't recommend breeding dogs, there are plenty in this world w/ all of them in shelters. Please, don't bring any unneeded dogs into this world!

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